Episode 2 - Interview with Jennifer porter of Satsuma Designs
Episode Notes
Host Heather Zager welcomes Jennifer Porter, the owner and operator of Satsuma Designs out of Seattle, to the show to talk about the different types of manufacture and what the manufacturing process entails. Jennifer has been in the business for twenty years and through that experience walks listeners through how to prepare for manufacture and addresses some common misconceptions about how it all works.
Jennifer got her start in infant and children’s clothes which is reflected in how Satsuma Designs offers a kid’s uniform recycling process as well as cut and sew services and informational courses for product businesses. She is a big supporter of US-based manufacturing and breaks down the differences between working in the US and overseas with Heather. Jennifer’s strength in communicating the process clearly for emerging designers and new entrepreneurs makes things seem less complex and more achievable.
Heather and Jennifer discuss everything from tech packs to labels and samples. They explain the acronym MOQ, why the rule of three is an efficient cost-saving technique for start-ups, why fabric choice can affect time and process, and what the greatest misconception among designers often is. Heather’s conversation with Jennifer sheds welcome light on the inner workings of the manufacturing process and Jennifer’s enthusiasm for the industry will inspire new designers to push through hesitation and succeed.
About Jennifer Porter
Jennifer Porter is the owner/operator of Satsuma Designs, a Seattle-based apparel design and manufacturing company founded in 2007.
Satsuma Designs’ most recent initiative started in February 2020 includes Satsuma Uniform, a social enterprise devoted to skills development for women refugees and immigrants in the Pacific Northwest. Through design and manufacture of school and healthcare uniforms with strategic partner, Refugee Artisan Initiative, Satsuma Uniform is changing the sewn goods industry in the region.
Jennifer graduated from Santa Clara University and started her career on Wall Street. She has worked for non-profits in D.C., designed, marketed and sold other peoples’ products as well as her own online and IRL.
She’s a passionate teacher of etiquette (courtesy people!), Sunday School, and crafting. When not juggling these, she’s making mom jokes to get her middle-school aged kids’ attention. Thankfully, she already has her husband and co-comedian, Tim’s, attention.
Contact Heather Zager | MADE Apparel Services:
Contact Jennifer Porter | Satsuma Designs:
Transcript
Heather Zager: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to today's podcast. My name is Heather Zager. I am the host of this podcast series and founder of MADE Apparel Services. In today's episode, we will be talking with a manufacturer based in Seattle who has a lot of experience working with new designers. She's going to talk to us a little bit about the different types of manufacture, what it is that you need to do to prepare to get to manufacture, and then some common misconceptions that she's seen about getting to manufacture and what that process entails. Should be a great interview. We hope you enjoy the show. So let's get started.
Heather Zager: [00:00:36] Welcome everybody to the MADE Apparel Services podcast. Today we are interviewing with Jennifer Porter with Satsuma Designs, a Seattle based small batch/large batch manufacture company. She is live on the floor also, so if we hear any background noise we will know that it is legit. How are you today, Jennifer?
Jennifer Porter: [00:00:55] I'm great Heather, thank you. I'm so happy to be here and hopefully share some helpful information with your clients and folks that you work with. Your partnership has been so valuable to me, and I really appreciate all the professionalism that you bring to this business, your communication, your tech packs, your patterns, and just a lot of creativity. So I'm really happy to be here.
Heather Zager: [00:01:18] Wonderful. Thank you so much. I know I will have a lot of listeners very interested in what you have to say, so we'll get started. I first wanted to do a little bit of an explanation for our listeners on the two types of manufacturer. There are cut and sew versus full package. And I think, Jennifer, you might be able to speak a little bit, too, to the differences between those two. And of course there's degrees and variations and overlap in both of those. But I think if you keep these two types of manufacture in mind, one of the issues I find with my clients is that they'll go to one thinking they're getting the services of the other, not realizing that there is a degree of separation that is helpful to understand before you go to a manufacturer and start asking questions about their manufacture capabilities. So tell us a little bit about the difference between cut and sew versus a full package manufacturer.
Jennifer Porter: [00:02:09] Yeah thanks, Heather. They are distinct. And I think about a full service manufacturer as somebody who can help a client take an idea or a dream to fruition to turn it into an actual product, somebody that has prototype pattern making, tech pack capabilities, grading, marking, and in some cases, you know, small batch or large batch production. So that full service. Now conversely, a cut and sew, I would say where my focus is currently is working with somebody who maybe has, might not have experience, but at least has the tools in play and in place that we can take kind of that kit and hit the ground running pretty quickly. One thing I like about that, having been in this business for 20 years and being a customer that I serve now, in other words, when I started my baby and children's collection, I was the type of client that I serve today. And being able to go to a cut and sew with those pieces together, for example, that you provide, allows the factory to get started. And what it really allows us to do is give you a better per piece price. Now there are elements through sampling and prototyping where if we run into changes, that's usually billed at an hourly, but sometimes when the focus is on cut and sew, and with my lean manufacturing training, we're trying to be as efficient as possible. And that's our goal for our customer and our team. So it's mutually beneficial. And I feel like we all have the same incentive. Does that help?
Heather Zager: [00:03:51] Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to note that no matter what manufacturer you go with, if it's cut and sew versus full package, you need some sort of product development at some point. So whether you come to the manufacturer with your product developed or you need those services, that's the distinguishing factor between which you can choose. But yeah, that's, in lies the overlap. I think to some degree. That cut and sew, such as yourself, does offer some development services, but it starts to get off track maybe a little bit from your main objective of just cutting and sewing.
Jennifer Porter: [00:04:25] Well said. Definitely.
Heather Zager: [00:04:27] Perfect. Perfect. Okay, so I have a couple of questions I want to ask you on behalf of clients and some experiences I've had with clients. My first one is if you got a call from someone today with only an idea in their head and they asked how to get it made and manufactured, what would be the first question you would ask of them or the guidance that you would give?
Jennifer Porter: [00:04:48] My first counsel, bit of, you know, advice is go try to make it.
Heather Zager: [00:04:55] Perfect.
Jennifer Porter: [00:04:55] Whatever it is, if it's a garment or an accessory or some kind, you know, whatever sewn item it is, try to make it. And you know, I'm a huge crafter. I love my glue gun and, you know, stapler. So even if it's very rudimentary, you're going to the fabric store over the weekend, you're getting some muslin cloth or some inexpensive cotton or knit, fleece, whatever you have in your mind, go ahead and cut it up and glue it. If you are comfortable on the sewing machine, by all means just do a very rough mock up of what you have in your mind and you will learn so much along the way. So my best, really, if somebody comes to me, you know, just with an idea or maybe some sketches, that's the first thing I talk about is like, you know, go and make one.
Heather Zager: [00:05:43] Yes. And I think that's important information. A lot of people, first of all say, well, I can't sketch, so I can't draw my idea. So if they know that they have the freedom of choice to be able to just mock something up, even if they're just stapling it or taping it, I think that's great. And having dealt with a lot of clients that don't know how to sew, that gives them, yeah, the freedom to be able to just mock something up however they feel works for them. But it also, I get a lot of sketches that they're a great start. Of course, I can start with anything, you can start with anything, but it's really hard to envision what we call the sequence of construction, which is what do you have to do first before you can possibly do the next thing, or the next thing, or the next thing? And if you're actually mocking that up, you learn just instinctively that there has to be a sequence of how those things are put together. So I think that's helpful. And it also, I find that it helps the client to understand that they can't do it, or that there is a limitation to their skills and abilities, and it builds value for people like you and I. So.
Jennifer Porter: [00:06:46] Oh no doubt. That is such a great point. When you were talking about sequence of construction, I am thinking as something so basic as when do you put on the label?
Heather Zager: [00:06:55] Yeah, right.
Jennifer Porter: [00:06:56] So, you know, you and I have worked on men's shirting together. Typically that label is the first thing you do, and that might not be apparent to a client that comes in the door and all these things. And that's why as cut and sew we say, okay, what are all the elements that you need to produce this? Let's make sure they are in hand. You know, when you're, when they're all in hand, then you're ready to come to us.
Heather Zager: [00:07:19] Absolutely right. And a lot of people compare manufacturer and product development even to baking something, baking a cookie or a muffin. You have to have the recipe, and you have to know how many of each ingredient you need. But you also need those instructions. And it tells you preheat your oven, which is like apply your label with a pre-stitch first. So very good. That's a very good point. Okay. So my next question is how do you know when somebody who comes to you is ready for manufacture.? Like what do they have in hand?
Jennifer Porter: [00:07:52] Yeah, well, I would say they need to have a pattern. They need to have a tech pack. They need to have identified a close enough fabrication of whatever material that they're using. And I say close enough because they don't have to have the end material fully identified. But let's take woven versus knit, for example.
Heather Zager: [00:08:18] Right
Jennifer Porter: [00:08:18] And as importantly as the weight of the fabric, because as you well know, lighter weight fabric behaves differently under a sewing machine foot than a heavier weight fabric does. So those are the considerations that go in to the prototyping and the sampling phase, where we're getting to know how are we going to beautifully construct this garment, but as importantly, how are we going to price it based on time.
Heather Zager: [00:08:41] Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. And it's important to note, too, that having some idea of the fabric that you want to use is critical, because if you change the stretch or the weight of it, that can actually change your pattern. So.
Jennifer Porter: [00:08:57] That's right.
Heather Zager: [00:08:58] Yeah. And then it changes how the machines that you use, potentially too. So a lot goes into having a pattern and a tech pack to be able to call those things out specifically for the design you're trying to create.
Jennifer Porter: [00:09:11] Yeah. And I would just add briefly, you know, I mentioned the labels before, having some of those things in your mind. If you don't have a label, that's fine. But if you have at least the idea of where it should go. And you know, I've worked in marketing for many years too, and I just want a new brand to be branding in any and every possible way. So for me, that means a brand label, a care and content label, sometimes those are individual labels that maybe have a URL, a brand website address, maybe even a little notation, and hopefully a Made in America flag. You know, something, just those other elements too. So those are nice to have. And if they're not physical items, at least called out in that tech pack.
Heather Zager: [00:09:56] Right. Okay. Yeah, exposure as much as possible for your brand, especially if you're starting, if you're a startup with a design, you want to make sure that people can find your information easily. Excellent. Okay. And then can you speak real quick to coming into manufacture about size and fit? Do they need to have a graded pattern, or do you just do one size of something and do a lot of them, or what have you kind of seen in your experience?
Jennifer Porter: [00:10:20] Yeah, I think one method that has worked pretty successfully for our customers is to create a pattern that will fit either the brand owner or somebody in the brand owner's life who they have access to to fit, live in, test, give feedback. Certainly we are all unique and we all have different, you know, sizing parameters. But there are standards and that's why they are standard sizes. So your small might not be what you want to be an actual small. But start with the standard, build to that, and then you know you can adjust as needed. But I think it's real., I have found the most success when the brand owner is, you know, comfortable with doing a standard size that will closely fit them.
Heather Zager: [00:11:13] Right. Okay. Okay. Excellent. Excellent feedback. And then let's say somebody has all those things. They have their pattern, their tech pack, their sample to some degree, and they know who it fits. So they come to you and they have all this stuff. What is the process from there? I mean, do you just sew a sample first or you go straight into manufacture or how do you break that down?
Jennifer Porter: [00:11:33] Yeah, great question. We would sew a sample, depending on the complexity of the item, if it's apparel, let's say, or maybe a complicated accessory, a handbag with a lot of, you know, zipper straps, etc. there could be multiple samples. But yeah, I would say in general, we start with one sample in that material of choice with all the trims, that branding if possible. And for us that's billed on an hourly rate, you know, kind of that getting into the door, getting that sample made. And then as we're sampling we're doing a time study. And that's going to help us give a per piece price and typically our Minimum Order Quantity or our MOQ, which of course in the business we see all the time but if listeners aren't familiar with that acronym, it's a Minimum Order Quantity. And that just is exactly what it sounds. So typically we look for a 200 unit minimum order quantity in a style. And what that means is within that style it can be multiple sizes and multiple colorways. Now, I hope I'm not getting too into the weeds, but one thing that I have tried to implement, I have, I think pretty successfully implemented, is within that three size, and it's not meant to be exclusive, but what it is meant to do is to help a brand be quite targeted in who they are actually serving. So three sizes are included in that per piece price. And the way we work is anything outside of that size range is just a 10% premium. So if you make a shirt for $20, let's say you're Medium, Large, XL, but you want to add Smalls, then the Medium, Large, and XL are $20 and the Small is $22.
Heather Zager: [00:13:20] Oh okay. That makes sense. Yeah, and that's a good strategy because a lot of times dealing with new designers, they want to fit everybody.
Jennifer Porter: [00:13:29] Yeah.
Heather Zager: [00:13:29] And so narrowing the focus is a good idea. And that's great that you do that to help kind of keep them on track. And it resonates with any conversations they've had with me in particular, and probably other people who do what I do, is it just can be overwhelming to have a lot of different sizes or a lot of different styles or colors to start with.
Jennifer Porter: [00:13:47] Yeah, I would love to say one thing about infant and children's apparel, because that's part of my background. And you know, we do, we want to be so sensitive to what families and gifts, you know, parents and guardians and gift-givers want in terms of being able to fit. But what I have found in infant, you know, baby and children's wear is doing bridge sizes and pairing sizes does really work pretty effectively. And, you know, just that's something to keep in mind. And when we're working with somebody who, you know, might have a seven size range, how can we help you narrow that down a little bit and still really beautifully, you know, serve your customer.
Heather Zager: [00:14:32] Right. No, I'm actually glad you brought that up because I have worked with children and infants, not as much, but they do have a lot of sizes. And so that can get really, a large batch quite quickly, so anything you can do to focus those sizes in or combine them that's not a bad idea. So that's a good point. Good call out. Okay, perfect. That's really good information. Another question I have is have you ever been able to manufacture without a tech pack, a sample or a pattern?
Jennifer Porter: [00:15:03] Oh, you mean work magic?
Heather Zager: [00:15:05] Yeah, exactly. Precisely.
Jennifer Porter: [00:15:10] Well I humbly say yes. And the reason is because there are some products that are just so straightforward that, you know, I learned to sew from my mom. I'm sure, like many of us did. You know those those introductory sewing projects, a tote bag, a pillow covering, some kind of linen, you know, a nice mitered corner napkin or placemat, table runner, yes. Most definitely. But yeah, I think having said that, again, fabrication, whatever fabric or material, that's a consideration. So have that in mind and have your finished product spec'd out. That can be a one page spec sheet with a very rudimentary sketch, but gives the finished dimensions. Maybe it's a placement of a label, maybe it's placement of a zipper, and certainly photographs or actual physical samples of things that are similar are very helpful.
Heather Zager: [00:16:13] Okay. And that makes sense. And I would, I would kind of call that a tech transfer to some degree. You know, the person coming to you has already done some experimenting. They've done some stapling. They've realized that, oh, that can't be stapled before this gets stapled. And to just hand it to somebody and say, here, make more of these and do them the same every time, it's just helpful for you to know, like, what have you tried and didn't work or what did you try that did work and you love it and you want to keep it? You know where is some of the flexibility if I need to use a different machine and I can't produce exactly what you've done or... yeah. So it gives you just some information to get you up to speed before you even start. So the more information that they can come in with, the better.
Jennifer Porter: [00:16:58] Yes. Well put. And I love what you said about little variations based on what they bring in and what someone like us and our equipment and operators - remember, we're human - are able to produce based on, you know, the design, based on the materials, all those elements. And certainly that's why we have tolerances in tech packs, for example, you know, a quarter inch, a half inch. And we sew to spec. What you get from us is what you approved in your sample. But by the same notion, this idea that there will be slight variations, you know, is you know.
Heather Zager: [00:17:40] Yeah. And it's a collaboration. You know, they don't know how to sew. You do. But you didn't necessarily start the design from scratch. So they have to bring you up to speed. And so yeah, you just do the sampling to figure out like where are the areas that we need to discuss, where are the ones that are just fine, or where are the ones that we have questions on? And you figure from there and once you come to an arrangement and everybody agrees, that's when you're going into the production agreement, I assume.
Jennifer Porter: [00:18:05] Exactly. Yep.
Heather Zager: [00:18:06] Okay. Perfect. So, kind of building on that, a question I get asked a lot is what is something a new designer can keep in mind to help keep costs low? Like how do you just stay with low costs? What is your feedback and suggestions for that?
Jennifer Porter: [00:18:21] Yeah, I mean for sure. And I love speaking to this because if you have a dream in your mind and you want to put it out there, nothing should stop you. You know, especially your budget. I think keeping costs down include creating a design that serves your vision and also serves your customer, but is not overly elaborate. I often deal in the, and deal in love and hopefully try to live by the rule of three, you know, I think picking one style in three colorways is an awesome way to go in those three sizes. And for someone like, you know, Satsuma and being an operator, thread change is something. f you can pick three colorways that are all somehow complementary, that maybe use the same thread color, the same button color, the same label color, like the things that could be worked through each colorway and even multiple styles through a season is really going to help your per unit cost and it's going to help keep it down.
Heather Zager: [00:19:30] Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. I know my listeners can't see this, but the hoodie I'm wearing right now, it's two-toned and I just sewed this over the weekend and it's black and white basically. And I was too lazy to change the thread. So I called it contrast topstitching.
Jennifer Porter: [00:19:48] Well, it's beautiful. I wish your listeners could see it. It's very well made.
Heather Zager: [00:19:54] Thank you, thank you. Yeah. So it is really just, you know, when you're sewing one of something, it's like a thread change, you know. So that does, that is a very good point, because it does slow things down a little bit. And yeah, if you can get them, even if a garment is not contrasting colors, if you can keep it all similar colors within the garment itself too, that is helpful. But yeah, in your area when you're talking about rules of three and doing different sizes and different colorways, then even better, yeah, if you can get the tonal colors all the same. Yeah. Excellent. Okay, perfect. My other question is, and I just have a few more, what is the most common challenge working with a new client like emerging designer type. And I mean challenge as in there's probably some tips or tricks that they're all just not aware of that if you could tell them all right now what those would be to help them coming into manufacture, what would that be?
Jennifer Porter: [00:20:49] Yeah. I think the biggest challenge is, I suppose, the learning curve. Okay. But we're, we all need to start somewhere. And I have been where my customers are when working with us. And so, and part of my, you know, personal work is, you know, developing my methods of communicating in a way that makes sense to somebody that's new to the industry. And I really enjoy that part because it's so fun to work with a new brand and entrepreneur, somebody who's super fired up about helping people in this really unique way and trying something new. So it's a challenge, but it's an opportunity.
Heather Zager: [00:21:37] Yeah, yeah. And it's, when you see it all coming together in their minds, when they have those aha moments, they're like, oh, you know, and then just to make them feel reassured that you're there to guide them and you get that feedback from them, but also to be patient with themselves. You know, it's like you're not going to know everything at once. I am here to guide you and help you through. I won't let you forget something because likely I need to know it now to develop it anyway or to sew it. So absolutely.
Jennifer Porter: [00:22:05] You bring up a really good point related to time, giving the brand, giving themselves a break, and then I think timeline, now that you say it, can definitely be a wrinkle because I think there's this expectation you're going into something that may be new, but every we all wear clothes, okay? We all know, we all carry bags. We're like, okay, well yeah, I can make this. And sometimes it's connecting the okay, what is it really take to make something? What is, and how long does that really take? So yeah I think kind of setting expectations in terms of timing, things like that. And listen, I am all about quick timelines, quick turns. We typically try to work where we're just working on one project and one brand at one time, and that helps with our efficiency. So yeah, we're all about quick turnovers. But I think just setting reasonable expectations about what it takes to prototype, have a pattern made, have a sample, you know, get it graded, get it marked, etc.
Heather Zager: [00:23:05] Yeah. And I should say, I just realized while you were talking, that when we're talking about patterns in samples and prototyping and developing, this is all just to not only solidify your design concept in your mind and to prove that it can be sewn and constructed in the way that you were visualizing, but also it ensures that it's correct in all the levels, in all the regards, for all the people that are going to be involved in your process. So the new client or the emerging designer is the one that's going to need to be overviewing everything that's done and making sure it's still aligning with their agenda, that they're going to have to take the part of marketing their items, knowing their target market, knowing their target retail price, conveying that to people like you and I, so that we know the parameters within which we need to work. And everybody is, it's like a trifecta of of assistance and consultancy. You know, you're the manufacturer, I'm the developer, they're the designer. And we all come together and try to work out a plan that will work. And along the way, being cognizant of a time frame and just being patient and that it is a process.
Jennifer Porter: [00:24:17] Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Zager: [00:24:18] Absolutely.
Jennifer Porter: [00:24:18] That's great. Yeah.
Heather Zager: [00:24:19] Okay. And I think my last question is just going to be, what do you think is the most common misconception about manufacturers of any kind, whether it's cut and sew versus full package that designers, new designers have?
Jennifer Porter: [00:24:35] Yeah, it might be the--
Heather Zager: [00:24:38] The do everything thing?
Jennifer Porter: [00:24:39] I think so. I, yeah, I think so. Maybe, you know, even though we want to try to do it all within the time frame and definitely stay on budget. Yeah, I think it's just, you know, our factory is small relative to overseas production. We produce a lot. So I'm very happy about that. But yeah I just think it's the expectations of production.
Heather Zager: [00:25:06] Yeah. It, not every manufacturer does everything. A lot of them specialize. And we didn't talk at all about like overseas versus US-based. But as a quick recap, overseas I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, can be cheaper per piece but tends to be a higher order MOQ that we talked about earlier. And they can do more complex garments, though, I think, complex designs for a better cost. So if you have something that's super involved, but we don't generally deal with that, I think, working with emerging designers. So US-based versus overseas is, it's going to wash. I think it's going to kind of break even.
Jennifer Porter: [00:25:50] Yeah, I think that's accurate. I have, over the years, manufactured overseas. And it's helped inform me and really support the mission, or I mean that I consider my mission, in working and promoting domestic production. But I really think financially even that starting, hopefully finishing, but starting domestically is a very smart way for a brand to begin. Because, you know, just the variety of things. Duties, transport, communication, oversight and quality control. I'm telling you, I love it when, you know, customers come and we look at, you know, the production process together. And, you know, we want to be as transparent as possible.
Heather Zager: [00:26:37] Yeah. And you know, if you're an experienced designer and you've launched a couple different seasons, then you start to understand. And you may want to consider outsourcing overseas or something to that effect. I mean, not only will you have the demand, more of the demand, and need more of the quantity, but you get a little bit more confident, I think. But with an emerging designer, yeah being close to home, being able to just drive into Seattle and go to your floor there and take a look at what you've done and collaborate in person is just a huge step for somebody new to the industry. So.
Jennifer Porter: [00:27:09] Yes.
Heather Zager: [00:27:09] Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. Well, I think I have a lot more questions, but I don't want to, you know, make this too long. So we will probably be doing another interview at some point in the future. And actually at this point, too, I like to tell my listeners that if you have any questions we didn't answer or something didn't make sense that we did talk about, let us know. And I can certainly write that down on my list of questions. There's so many and just so little time. So wish we could talk about them all at once.
Jennifer Porter: [00:27:36] Yeah.
Heather Zager: [00:27:37] Are there any last minute tips you'd like to add or anything we didn't cover, Jennifer?
Jennifer Porter: [00:27:41] Well, I just really enjoy this business, and I hope that it never feels intimidating or overwhelming to anyone because you really can get out there so cost effectively. And, yeah, have a lot of fun. I really enjoyed spending time with you, Heather, today, and I would love a part two if you'll have me.
Heather Zager: [00:28:01] Oh, that'd be great. Cool. Excellent. Yeah, and I think that is a really good point that it does seem overwhelming, but do some research. There's a lot of resources out there for startups and emerging designers on getting to manufacture with a sewn product idea. It is out there, and it's almost, the hard part is almost going through all of it and figuring out what to watch first. So but yeah, you can reach out to either Jennifer or myself. She's at Satsuma Designs in Seattle, Washington, and I am Heather Zager with MADE Apparel Services. And either of us can help you with any questions that you may still have. So I think with that we will end our podcast here. And everybody have a great day.
Heather Zager: [00:28:43] Thank you for listening to today's episode. We hope that you enjoyed it. If we didn't answer all of your questions, or you just have some comments or suggestions about future podcast episodes, please email me at Heather@MADEApparelServices.com.